Learning to Speak and Write in Japanese

Learning to speak and write is an important part of learning Japanese. Cure Dolly frequently emphasizes that the mind treats language in a very different way from anything else. Being able to use a language for real communication is the key to getting your mind to prioritize your Japanese.

While learning to speak and write is crucial to truly learning Japanese, it can be hard to know when you should begin these activities.

When Do You Start Speaking?

Like many things about learning Japanese, if you look online, you will get all sorts of opinions about this. Some will say that you should start speaking from Day 1. Others will say that you should wait until your Japanese reaches a certain level.

My own thought is that this will vary from person to person. For some people, speaking from Day 1 really is the best choice. Others may want to wait until they feel ready. Some, like myself, will wait until they have a mentor who forces the issue.

Everyone is different. One big factor is whether you are an introvert or an extrovert. If you are an extrovert, you will probably want to start speaking as soon as you can. You enjoy connections with other people, and being able to talk will be motivating for you.

If you are an introvert, however, you may want to spend a lot more time on input, i.e. listening and reading, before you feel ready to take the plunge into speaking. For you, speaking may be scary rather than motivating.

Cure Dolly talks about this question and about how to go about learning to speak in the video that is linked to below:

When Do You Start Writing?

Writing in Japanese is also important, and it gives different opportunities and poses different challenges.

For introverts, writing may be a bit easier than talking. One does not necessarily have to interact with others or even have a partner to write. It is possible to start writing in a journal or a diary so that no one else can see.

When you are writing, you also have the opportunity to look up words and investigate grammar points. When you do this, it can increase the level of your Japanese in all other areas.

In the video linked below, Cure Dolly discusses some ways to improve your writing and even write above your current level of Japanese.

Opportunities to Speak and Write

There are currently opportunities available to begin speaking and writing, even if you are a beginner.

Opportunity to Speak

One of these opportunities is our group with Mozilla Hubs. It can be accessed by your computer, your phone, your tablet, or through Virtual Reality on either your computer or your Oculus or other VR device.

The link to this Hub is below:

Trusty Helpful Outings

We are currently meeting on Saturdays at 8 pm British Time/2 pm US Central Time. This coming Saturday, we will be starting something new and dedicating the first 15 minutes to beginners. We will have an easy conversation, and the topic will be announced ahead of time.

This Saturday’s topic will be the weather.

For future weeks, the topic will be announced on this Forum thread.

If you would like to stay, you are more than welcome to, but the conversation will move to a more advanced level. Even if you cannot follow the entire conversation, you are welcome to listen and chime in when you can.

If you would like to leave after the beginner’s time is over, you are free to do that as well.

Note about Daylight Savings Time

Daylight Savings Time will start in the United States on March 13, 2022, but it will not start in Europe until March 27, 2022.

This will impact the Hub on March 19 and March 26, 2022.

As currently, there are more members in the United States than in Europe, we will be following the time in the United States. That means that if you are in Europe, or in a place that follows the later start time, the Hub will start an hour earlier for you than normal for these two weeks.

Opportunity to Write

There are also plenty of opportunities to write on the Organic Japanese Forum, which remains active and ongoing.

You will need to register for the Forum in order to participate, but doing so is simple and straightforward. Once you are there, you may only write in Japanese, and English is forbidden. This creates a situation in which you must communicate in Japanese. The Forum is friendly and helpful, and we are all learning.

This makes it a safe place to learn how to use your Japanese.

At present, thanks to one of our members, Helen-san, is an ongoing game called Card Monogatari. This game is a progressive story, in which each person picks a word from a list and writes a sentence or two.

There is one that is at a beginner’s level, which can be found here, and there is another that is at an intermediate level, which can be found here.

These can be ways to jump in, even if you are shy or have trouble thinking of things to say.

Why no no is a no-no in Japanese

This piece arose from an answer to a question on the nominalizing no and perhaps explains this particular aspect a little more clearly than in the video The Japanese nominalizing no particle.

Japanese school textbooks for Japanese children explain the nominalizing no as being short for “no mono” and I think that is pretty accurate in describing how it works.

To put it another way, no in “aoi no” meaning “the blue one” is indeed the no that is roughly equivalent to “mono” or “koto”. And when we want to place a possessive no before this no (they are closely related as I show in the nominalizing no video) we don’t double the no, but let one stand for both.

So if we want to say “Sakura’s one” we don’t say “sakura no no”, we just say “sakura no”, as in “sakura no ga suki da” (I like Sakura’s one).

We do something very similar in English. For example, we may say

“Sakura’s is red, Mary’s is blue”

which would exactly correspond to

“Sakura no ga akai , Mearii no ga aoi”

rather than

“Sakura’s one is red and Mary’s one is blue”

which, literally rendered, would be

X “Sakura no no ga akai, Mearii no no ga aoi”

The cross is to show that this sentence is not correct Japanese.

In English we can conflate the ‘s and the one but in Japanese we must conflate the no that is ‘s and the no that is one.


Originally published on Cure Dolly’s Patreon on Apr 4, 2018

GROPING in the DARKNESS – Links to structure points covered

This is the support page for the video Groping in the Darkness (If you haven’t seen it, you can find it at the end of this page).

Here we provide links to the various video lessons in which all the main structure points touched on in the video are examined in depth.

This is the third part of the story. For the analysis of the earlier parts:

First part of the story.

Second part of the story.

Full story (without commentary) at Akasic Tails.

Links for this third part:

Self-move vs other-move: important at various points in the video and a key to Japanese.

Verb-stem system (あ-stem, い-stem etc.) The backbone of Japanese.

いる・ある the real difference (“volition” rather than simple sentience)

Appeared to have…. らしい and other conjectures.

….done gone to sleep. Use of しまう・しまった・ちゃった.

Self-address particle な.

Proposition-marking function of particle か.

Adverbial nouns (and noun-centered nature of Japanese).

Compound sentences.

Modifying-clause structure.

○○ておく placing an action.

ことにする deciding on a course of action.

A,B にする turn A into B

So now that you can find the main structural points covered, why not re-watch the video!

Taking the Plunge: Japanese Self-Immersion. Links to all structure points

This is the support-page for the Japanese self-immersion video “Taking the Plunge” (you can find it further down the page).

Here we give links to full structural explanations of all the points covered in the video.

 

● Decorated Japanese: です・ます form. How it works.

● A meat-carrying dog: 肉をくわえた犬 Logical clauses as adjectivals (adjectival structure of Japanese)

● In the state of crossing the bridge: わたっていました. て-form depicting continuous state

● I’m not an android, I’m The Android: 犬はそれを見て は as marker of known entity, が of unknown entity.

● This, that and the other: 犬はそれを見て それ as part of the こ、そ、あ、ど structure, and how it really works.

● I came, I saw, I thunk: 犬はそれを見て思いました compound sentences.

● “Yours is bigger than mine”: あいつの肉のほうが大きそうだ Comparative ほう、contrasting one “side” with another.

● あいつの肉のほうが大きそうだ  そうだ expressing subjective impression (as opposed to differently-structured そうだ expressing hearsay).

● Annoyed dog or annoying dog? The nature of Japanese adjectives of subjectivity.

● Giving up or giving down? てくれる and てあげる (cf 取ってよろう)

● It fell saying “splash: ポチャンと the と particle marking both statements and sound-effects.

● It done fell: 落ちてしまいました てしまう、ちゃう、ちゃった, how they really work.

● The fact is that… 自分の顔だったのです。 understanding the のだ, のです ending.

● If one is greedy… the と conditional conjunction.

Speaking Japanese Without an Accent – Vital Skill or Party Trick?

This is a subject that comes up from time to time. I recently had the following question:

Do you think people who didn’t get fluent just through listening can fix/”remove” their accent? Or will they have it forever? 

Here is my answer:

 I think we need a little perspective here. 

American universities attract the best minds from all over the world to teach there. Nearly all of them, unless they came very young, speak English with an accent that indicates where they came from. Nobody cares about this or thinks any the less of them for it.

 Speaking a language learned beyond infancy with no accent is unusual. It can be done, but the question to ask is: is there actually any good reason to do it, or would the effort be better spent on something more useful?   

The answer is different in different cases. If you want to be a voice actor in Japan, for example, it is very important. If you want to impress people – well, it will certainly impress native speakers for a few days after you first meet them*. Non-native speakers mostly won’t be able to hear the difference. 

But apart from certain occupations where it is critical, it really is little more than a party trick. 

There are certain internet personalities who appear to regard learning Japanese as a kind of testosterone-driven spitting contest, who will say that you “suck” if you can’t talk without an accent. 

Presumably they think Einstein “sucked” because his English was always accented. 

You may find that your own priorities are a little more grown-up.  

To my processor, Einstein had the ability to communicate what he wanted to communicate in English (and that was by no means simple). That is what language is for. 

It is a means of communication, not a competitive sport.  

Polish-born Josef Conrad, whose command of English was so good that he is considered to be one of the great novelists of English literary history, spoke with a strong Polish accent all his life. I don’t suppose the matter was of the smallest concern to him or to anyone he knew.  

To be clear, if speaking without an accent is a challenge you want to undertake, I have no criticism whatever. Humans do all kinds of things – climb mountains, sail oceans in a tub. All of it is admirable and if that seems like a good use of your time absolutely go for it. 

All I suggest is that you make your own assessment of whether this is in fact an important goal and not take too much notice of people who suggest that it is a necessary component of becoming proficient at Japanese. It isn’t.  

However, to answer your question. Should you at any point decide to try to eliminate all trace of non-native accent, you can do so if 1) your ear is good enough and 2) you want to devote the time and effort to doing it. 

Learning by pure listening would give you a head start. But without real (24/7) immersion that is not very easy unless you have a special talent for that kind of learning. Some people do. Most people don’t. It isn’t a sign of general intelligence, just a facility some people have – like being able to bend their pinky backwards.  

PS – to clarify – obviously you want to be able to enunciate clearly and correctly enough to be easily understood. That is a very different matter from eliminating all accent. 

Japanese people usually tell me that I am easy to understand – and prove it by understanding me the first time, despite the fact that I think I have a pretty strong accent (I suspect that my Japanese sounds notably weirder than my English). They also tell me that they have trouble understanding most foreigners. 

Pronunciation is not unimportant and there are a number of things that are crucial. I think one of the commonest problems is failing to sufficiently distinguish single from double vowels and failing to pronounce the small っ break (or putting it in where it doesn’t exist). I have had trouble understanding foreigners myself for this kind of reason.

So please understand that I am not arguing against accurate pronunciation. I am suggesting that the much bigger task of eliminating all accent should be considered on its merits in each individual case, and in most cases is unnecessary.

_______

This article first appeared on my Patreon feed and patron Kamui-sama commented:

There is so much else I have to learn and understand first before I will worry about my accent. Besides, accents usually are charming and I like hearing them.

This I think is very true.

When I used to do language exchange I had more than one Japanese lady with the cutest accent saying (in English) “how do I lose my accent?” And privately I was thinking “What would you want to do that for? I hope you don’t lose it!”

This experience did influence me, as I realized that it was probably the same the other way around.

___

*  It won’t impress strangers in Japan because they will probably assume that you were born there or lived there as a child – they will be more impressed by excellent but accented Japanese. 

Finding the right opening: 開く (あく) vs 開く (ひらく) vs 開ける(あける)

開くaku, 開くhiraku or 開ける akeru? Japanese has three words for “opening”, all based on the same kanji.

And two of them are written exactly the same.

When should you use which one? And why?

This is a slightly more complex question than you might think, and even Japanese people sometimes misuse the terms in certain cases.

Don’t worry though. It’s pretty straightforward.

Side-note. If you want to find the right beginning (初めて vs. 始めて), go here.

The first thing to know is that あく is a self-move verb, but ひらく is both self-move and other-move (and 開ける is other-move only). (Learn the simple secret of self-move and other-move here).

Having said this, there are cases where Japanese people not infrequently use expressions like 目をあく which is incorrect (a little like English speakers saying “they was there” – though I get the impression that it is less uneducated-sounding than that).

Naturally you will stick with grammatical use – not only because it is correct but also because there are only some cases where it is commonly misused and you don’t want to start learning lists of themʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

Now, in the large cross-over area where あく and ひらく are both (legitimately) used as self-move there is a difference, but there is a large cross-over within the cross-over.

However, the basic difference is very straightforward:

あくwill be used for a bottle opening (or being open), ひらく for a flower opening.

Things that spread open like a flower or a book are ひらく. If you love children’s songs, you may know むすんで・ひらいて.  Again it is natural that the action of spreading the fingers to open the hand is called ひらいて and not あいて. Books and umbrellas** are also ひらく.

So something that “opens out” is ひらく and something where a lid or a stopper is removed completely to allow access will definitely be あく. However, for a wide range of things – like French doors, eyes, mouth – either can be used.

The actual other-move version of あく is あける and that, just as we would expect, gives us the other-move form of the things that are more あく-like than ひらく-like (ひらくbeing its own other-move version, as it were).

There are occasions when this is less obvious, but the same logic still applies. For example:

店をひらく
Open a shop in the sense of establish it and begin trading.

店をあける
Open the shop for the day. Open the doors.

As you see, in the first the idea is that the shop is made to open out like a flower and begin, in the second it is just a question of unblocking the doorway so the customers can come in.

A supplementary question was:

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Seems like the kind of thing you just have to get used to with exposure. It’s very helpful to know the underlying principles behind them, though. How does ひらける fit into this? Is it just the potential form of ひらく again or is it a separate verb?

Here is my answer:

It isn’t really too difficult. There are things that are clearly あく and things that are clearly ひらく and then some that are less definite. These ones even Japanese people use freely in either form, so you can too.

In reading, you can read either in ambiguous cases. If the writer considers it important she will use furigana since there are small differences of nuance (ドアがひらいた for example tends to emphasize the idea of the door opening wide).

ひらける is not (usually) the potential form of ひらく, it is a derivative of ひらく and seems actually to be its self-move form (several Japanese sources say so).

Now this may seem confusing since ひらく is already both other-move and self-move but I think we need to see it in terms of moving the self-move side of ひらく further over to the ある side of the ある/する map.

Important note – if you don’t understand what I mean by the ある/する map please watch the video as this is a vital foundation of Japanese that never gets taught.

So ひらける means more “being in a state of having-opened-out” than simply opening-out – or at least lays more stress on the opened-out state. This is a kind of sliding-scale since ひらく can also have that implication (especially in the past tense) but ひらける lays more stress on ある-ness, if that makes sense.

If you want to find the right beginning (初めて vs. 始めて), go here

___

Notes:

* Naturally there is no confusion over these misuses when hearing/reading them because if someone is using を then they are clearly using the word as other-move.

** But remember that using an open umbrella is usually  差す  (さす) and this extends to opening it, so this is what you encounter most commonly unless specific attention is being drawn to the process of its unfolding. Though of course, since す-ending 差す is naturally other-move, we would say ひらく to describe what the umbrella itself does.

 

This article first appeared on my private Patreon feed

Japanese Punctuation: A Quick and Easy Guide

Japanese punctuation is easy, but to understand it we need to know a few things.

Most Japanese punctuation was adopted from the West relatively late, so it is not so integral to Japanese as European punctuation is to European languages.

The main functions of periods (。)and commas (、) are directly based on the equivalent European functions and the main difference is that the rules are less clearly established.

Periods are simple enough, since the concept of a sentence is quite straightforward in Japanese – A + B with any modifiers, and any compound of As and Bs that makes a complete logical unit.

Commas are pretty much thrown in whenever someone feels like it (kind of like Internet English). There aren’t definite rules for their use as in (real) English or German. I have heard of Japanese schoolchildren being criticized for overuse of commas* but this is simply a stylistic question and there is no general agreement on comma style. Essentially, if you want to show a natural pause you can use a comma. Concepts like comma-ing off a subordinate clause are not present in Japanese.

The various parentheses are used pretty much as anyone wants to use them too. Some publications or sites will establish their own rules, but there are few general ones.

「 」 are very straightforward. They work like English quotation marks. The only difference I can think of is that in some cases the closing  」can replace a period. Again this is a matter of style. Some publishers do this in their books and some don’t.

『 』 are mostly used for quotes within quotes – rather like single and double quotation marks in English, only the other way around (but English punctuation can be less consistent in this than Japanese punctuation).

〒 is used to mark a postal code in postal addresses and sometimes used as a symbol for (physical) mail in general.

々 is called the 同の字点 (どうのじてん) “same-character mark”. It simply indicates that a kanji is repeated. So words like 木木 (きぎ =trees) or 細細 (こまごま =detailed) are more often written 木々 and 細々.

I have never seen anything like the string of hash to represent foul language. This is probably because foul language is not a thing in Japan the way it is in European languages. That is, there are very few “taboo words” and they are not used in anything like the same manner they are used in European languages. There are of course many ways of being vulgar in Japanese, but the concentration around (and fascination with) a few particular words does not exist.

Some Western otaku types are so attached to Western dirty-word culture that they try to make out that it exists in some form in Japanese but it really doesn’t.

A postscript is called 追伸 (ついしん) and is sometimes used.

Hyphenation is not used in Japanese punctuation because that function really belongs to a word-spaced language – Western languages have separate words (good night) and joined words (goodnight) and sometimes want something between the two (good-night). But this question clearly doesn’t arise in Japanese where the entire concept “word” (as I sometimes try to convey) is actually very different from the western concept – much more fluid and lego-like. (This is why it would not be a good idea to introduce word-spacing into Japanese).

Overall, Japanese punctuation is easier than European punctuation because it is a recent add-on with few rules.

The question-mark is a case in point. Some people wonder when Japanese people insert a ? and the answer is pretty much “when they want to”. It is actually an extremely useful innovation because what it really does is mark intonation.

If we use the か marker in formal speech we don’t need it, but if we want to show that a normal-level sentence uses a rising pitch indicating a question we can pop one in. If it is clear from context we might not bother.

One curious piece of Japanese punctuation that may be puzzling (it puzzled me for a while) is that in books you will sometimes see little marks (rather like Japanese commas or occasionally dots) beside each letter of a word or a group of words in vertical text.

These are either for emphasis or picking out a special use of a word. In practice they work pretty much exactly like italicization in English and were probably based on that and originally introduced for translating Western books. The fact that you can’t type them easily and they seem restricted mainly to books reinforces that idea.

In fact, several things were brought into Japanese during the Meiji Era specifically to facilitate the translation of European novels into Japanese. One example of this is the gendered third-person pronouns 彼 (かれ) and 彼女 (かのじょ), which, believe it or not, did not exist before they were introduced for that purpose.

 

Note on Japanese punctuation in education

(Purely geeky and about Japanese punctuation in  children’s education. Feel free to ignore)

* I think the criticism of comma-use in schools is not based on an ideal of “correct comma use” the way it is in European languages. I think it centers on the question of using commas as a “crutch” to clarify one’s meaning rather than making oneself clear by the use of precise Japanese.

The underlying thought here, I think, is that since commas are not a part of Japanese structure with a clearly defined usage, while they may be used as stylistic embellishments to indicate pauses etc., the obvious dictum is:

If it isn’t clear without the commas, then it isn’t good Japanese.

But that isn’t something we need to worry about – this is primarily about the way Japanese children learn Japanese.

This article first appeared on my private Patreon feed

思われる Japanese omowareru – what it really means

A question today concerns 思われる, the receptive form of 思う. It is a good question because I think this is something that can be confusing, partly because of the way the receptive is explained as passive (which works – as a loose translation – part of the time but not all of it and completely messes up the structure) and partly because Japanese just puts things a little differently from English:

Maybe it’s silly, but I have a hard time differentiating between the receptive form of 思う and the verb 思われる. They seem similar to me. In which cases would you use the former, and in which cases would you use the latter?

Here is my reply:

This really isn’t silly at all because it can seem confusing at first and doesn’t get well explained.

Since 思う means “think”, 思われる means “receive being thought”, which works out in English as “seem” or “appear”. Funnily, English sometimes puts it the other way up: “give the impression”, whereas Japanese puts it “receive the perception”.

At times its meaning is very close to 思う for obvious reasons. “It seems (to me) to be a lemon” is much the same in practice as “(I) think it’s a lemon”. And as in English, the 思われる “it seems (to me)…” version is less direct/assertive than the 思う “(I) think…” version.

However, at other times 思われる does not imply “me” as the originator of the received thought at all and just means “It is thought to be”:

バクテリアの種類と思われる
“It is thought to be a species of bacteria.”

Here the English passive is the most natural translation and is fine provided we don’t let it affect our perception of the particles.

What we must remember is that receptive (so-called “passive”) constructions are made up of two verbs that always have two separate subjects. Which is why it is so damaging to our understanding to see them as a single “conjugated verb”.

The と links the idea or perception (that it is a species of bacteria) to 思う, which has the implicit subject of “people in general” (French “on”). The subject of れる is whatever “it” is that is thought to be a species of bacteria.

Some dictionaries list 思われる meaning “seems” as a separate word from the receptive form of 思う but I think it is clear that it is always actually receptive 思う.

The dictionaries are not actually “wrong” in this. Whether we call something “a different word” or not is simply a matter of cross-language explanation strategy and the strategy of a dictionary is somewhat different from the strategy of teaching/learning structure.

A dictionary’s proper aim is to give people, in a reasonably concise way, a picture of what a word might mean (in English) in a particular circumstance. The implied user is someone reading a piece of text and wanting to know how it would read in English.

The strategy of structure-study is to see what is actually going on in the Japanese, and the implied user is someone who wants to become proficient at understanding the language – not just at putting it into the nearest available English.

In general, the question of “same word” and “different word” in cases like this is a non-question. It implies that Japanese cuts up into units called words that could theoretically be spaced off from each other as in European languages.

This is not in fact the case, and if you read Japanese school grammars (for Japanese children) you will see that Japanese employs a number of terms for the most granular units of the language, but “word” or any close equivalent is not one of them.

This is not an eccentric manner of description but reflects the reality that Japanese lexical units are much more amoeba-like than European words.

We should also note that the confusion between the “two” uses arises because person having the thought that is being received is different in the two cases. This person, if explicitly mentioned would be marked by に as the “giver” of the received action always is.

So

バクテリアの種類と思われる

= ∅が∅に バクテリアの種類と思われる

The が-marked ∅ is of course the thing thought to be a species of bacteria,  and the に-marked ∅ is “people in general” – the usage is exactly equivalent to French on pense (one thinks = people think or in the more usual passive English “it is thought”).

When “I” is the implicit に-marked thinker, the visible structure is of course identical and we have to understand which it is from context.

Just as:

わたしはウナギだ

can in fact mean “I am an eel” but in the usual context, doesn’t.

In both cases the difference between the two meanings lies solely in the identity of the に-marked zero particle.

And if the concept of the zero particle isn’t crystal clear, please watch this video immediately, because it is the very foundation-stone of Japanese.

This article first appeared on my private Patreon feed